RECIPROCITY & HINDU ANGER

RECIPROCITY & HINDU ANGER

This starts as a beautiful story. Once upon a time, there was a tiny village in South Arcot’s district of Tamil Nadu, called Kuilaplayam. Now Kuilapalayam is like hundreds of villages around Pondichery: it is peopled with Hindu Vanniars, a caste slightly higher than the untouchables, poor, living off agriculture, usually a few meagre fields of cashew nuts. But then Kuilapalayam just happened to be in the midst of Auroville, the international township, founded by the Mother of Pondichery, based upon the ideals of the great yogi and revolutionary, Sri Aurobindo.

Thus Kuilaplayam prospered: its inhabitants learned trades needed for the city: carpenters, masons, craftsmen, some of its children attended Auroville’s schools and were educated along with western kids and in time graduated and went into white collar jobs. From a few cycles 40 years ago, Kuilapalama has today motorcycles, tractors, cars, vans, cable TV, cell phones, etc. The main road of Kuilapalayam which used to boast only shady huts, became lined-up with fancy shops which sell everything, from vegetables to handicrafts.

And then the unavoidable happened: a Kashmiri Muslim from Chennai heard about Auroville and the prosperity of Kuilapalaym and understanding that he could make a packet with so many westerners passing though Auroville, he opened the usual shawls & carpets’ shop in the village. Now Kuilapalayam never counted a Muslim amongst its population in its 1200 years of recorded history; but in the true Hindu tradition, this one was welcomed and nobody raised an objection, although he was competition for some of the other shops. Our Kashmiri Muslim, seeing his success, called his cousin in Kolkata, who came and opened another shop; and that one phoned his friend in Mumbai, who also landed-up and opened a third shop. Still nobody found anything to say. Kashmiris are sociable fellows and they quickly made friends with Westerners, most of them blissfully unaware of the political situation in India, so business was booming, till they were seven or eight Kashmiri shops in Kuilapalayam. And again nobody complained, even when the fellows started doing their naamaz in their backyards. “Isn’t God everywhere and isn’t He Krishna, as well as Allah”, said one of the villagers?

Then Bhoumi, one of the young boys of Kuilapalayam, who had gone to study in Delhi, told his parents when he came back, about the fact that not only no Hindu were allowed to buy land or start a shop in the Valley of Kashmir, where the shopkeepers came from, but that four hundred thousand Hindus, were chased out of the Valley by terror, many of them having been murdered and that many were still living as refugees in camps in Jammu and Delhi. His parents started talking to their friends and there was the first hint of resentment against the newcomers.

Then some elders of Kuilapalayam hear that Mulsims of Kashmir rioted when the Government allotted some land in Amarnath, one of the most sacred and ancient Hindu pilgrimages, high in the Himalayas. Bhoumi’s father went to see a group of Kuilaplayam Kashmiris having tea and told them that Hindus never complained about their government giving billion of rupees in subsidies to Indian Muslims so that they can visit their most Holy place, the Mecca. “But when Hindus, he continued, need shelters, toilets and basic facilities at height of 15.000 feet to worship at one of the holiest places of Hinduism, why do you Kashmiri Muslims deny it to us” ? The Kashmiris looked a bit uneasy, then replied “that anyway the Amarnath ice lingam had been discovered by a Muslim shepherd and that Muslims have always welcomed their Hindu brothers to Armanath”. But this did not convince the Kuilapalayam man who had heard from his son that many grenade attacks had happened over the years against the Amarnath pilgrims. And anger started mounting in Kuilapalayam.

So it is all a question of reciprocity. Most Hindus are peace-loving people. The average Hindu that you meet in a million Indian villages, such as Kuilapalayam, is easy-going and accepts you and your diversity, whether you are Christian, Muslim, Parsi or Jain, Arab, French or Chinese. He goes about his business and usually does not interfere in yours.

In fact Hindus take it a little further: they hate trouble and go out of their way to avoid it. Have you noticed how every time there is a possibility of a strike or trouble, Hindus stay home? Or how – forget about rioting – Hindus never speak-up, complain or protest in a united manner. Not only that, but everywhere in the world, Hindus are hounded, humiliated, routed, be it in Fiji where an elected democratic government was twice deposed in an armed coup, or in Pakistan and Bangladesh, where Muslims indulge in pogroms against Hindus every time they want to vent their hunger against India (read Taslima Nasreen’s book “Lalja”). In Assam, Tripura, or Nagaland, Hindus are being outnumbered by Bangladeshi illegal immigrants and terrorized by pro-Christian separatist groups, such as the Bodos or the Mizos, while local governments often turn a blind eye. Their temples are being taken over in many states like in Kerala or Karnataka, and the donations appropriated by the state governments.

Yet, in 3500 years of known existence, Hindus have never military invaded another country, never tried to impose their religion upon others, by force or even by induced conversions. No, it has rather been through peaceful invasions that Hinduism has stormed the world, whether in the East, witness Angkor Vat, or in the West today, where the by-products of Hinduism, yoga, meditation, ayurveda, pranayama, spread by great gurus such as Sri Sri Ravi Shankar, have been adopted by millions.

Thus Hindus, who accept everybody, welcome all religions, allow Indians from other parts to trade next to them, as it happened in Kuilapalayam, do not receive in return any gratitude and the same respect. On the contrary, they get mocked at, bombs are planted in their markets, their trains; their temples, their five star hotels get attacked, they are chased out of their homelands; television and newspapers make fun of them, their own politicians ostracize them… Hindus recognize the fact that God may manifest at different times under different names, the concept of the avatar – Krishna, Buddha, Mohamed or Jesus Christ. Indeed, Hindus gave refuge to all persecuted minorities of the world from the Parsis, to the Jews (India is the only country in the world where Jews were not persecuted, or killed bar the recent attack on the Nariman house in Mumbai) to the Armenians and the Tibetans today.

The first Christian community of the world, that of the Syrian Christians was established in Kerala in the 1st century and Christians in this country always had freedom of worship and respect from Hindus. But how did Christians repay their Hindu brothers and sisters? When the Portuguese landed in India in the 16th century, their Jesuits started a reign of terror in Kerala and particularly in Goa, forcibly marrying young Hindu girls to their soldiers, razing hundreds of temples to build churches, crucifying Brahmins. Today, Indian missionaries are converting with unethical means innocent tribals and Dalits in states like Orissa with the million of dollars donated by Westerners thinking it is to alleviate poverty. I am a Westerner and born Christian, but I cannot condone conversion from one religion to another by using cash and other financial baits. Furthermore, the new converts are encouraged to look down on their own culture and it creates tensions and havoc in their society as seen recently in Kandhamal.

So, sometimes, Enough is Enough. At some point, after years or even centuries of submitting like sheep to slaughter, Hindus, the most peace-loving people in the world, those the Mahatma Gandhi once called gently ‘cowards’, those who cringe in their houses at the least sign of riot, erupt in fury – uncontrolled fury. And it hurts. It hurts badly. It happened in Gujarat. It happened in Jammu. It is happening in Orissa now. It may happen again elsewhere, as Hindus are reaching a boiling point.

Yes, one should condemn the pogroms that happened in Gujarat or in Orissa, but one should look also in the causes. It is not only the 36 innocent Hindu women and children who were burnt savagely in a train by a mob of criminals, worse than animals, or the fact that an 84 year old harmless swami and his Mataji were brutally murdered. It is also how much silent frustration and anger must have built over the years, decades, or centuries even, amongst Gujarati or Orya Hindus, that in one moment, normal Hindus, peaceful people, many of them Dalits, tribals, or even upper middle class, came out on the streets of Ahmedabad or the jungles of Khandamal with such fury.

François Gautier

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64 responses to “RECIPROCITY & HINDU ANGER

  1. brilliant piece – the truth as it is!!!

  2. Francois, I wonder what would have been the tone of your article, if instad of a Kashmiri muslim a Kashmiri Pandit had gone there and opened a shop!!!

    Would love to know your views…

  3. monica khanna

    every thing i read makes my blood boil

  4. @Rakesh
    I am from Goa and there is a significant population of ‘Kashmeeri migrants’doing same business as the muslim in above article. Forget the tone I will tell you the reality.

    While they are actually refugees
    they are termed as Migrants. We are being told my local politicians that they are thrown out of their land because their coduct was bad.

    We are told that they actually sell drugs under the disguise of selling shawls.

    On the other hand in Goa, when the real illegal migrants are taken to police station for verification, the ministers personally visit the police station and transfer the police officer in charge.

  5. ajayae ali ram

    this is bullshyt & crap, just dont instigate hindu fanatic , seriously we dont want that dick-heads , lame ass moutha fuckers.

  6. I wish more in the media would have the
    courage and ability to think about the problems we are facing in the name of “secularism”. You do a great job of putting ideas across without rabble rousing.

  7. It is really sad to see Hindus being persecuted in their own country even after allowing itself to be partitioned!

    No wonder, a person like M K Gandhi had called Hindus cowards.

  8. ajayae ali ram

    you guyz are cowards & ppl who have been misguided , just silly to ask muslims to leave the country just b’coz they are minority & of course there are trouble makers in every religions , so dont blame it on our religion , im a hindu but staunchly condemn hindu fanaticism , its really sad ppl like François Gautier, who are educated but brain washed by bajraj dals or rss or like minded groups , its sad but the truth , just stop botherin the community lets us all live in peace , harmony & prosperity, and ask the traitor like Francois to leave the country.

  9. ajayae ali ram

    you guyz are cowards & ppl who have been misguided , just silly to ask muslims to leave the country just b’coz they are minority & of course there are trouble makers in every religions , so dont blame it on our religion , im a hindu but staunchly condemn hindu fanaticism , its really sad ppl like François Gautier, who are educated but brain washed by bajraj dals or rss or like minded groups , its sad but the truth , just stop botherin the community lets us all live in peace , harmony & prosperity, and ask the traitor like Francois to leave the country.

  10. @ajaye ali

    yes indeed, there are trouble makers in every religion. It is the buddhist that are demanding a separate kashmeer. It is Hindus who blew up buildings in United States.
    I guess the people who whipped the girl in Swat were Jains.

    No one asked muslims to leave. We have asked them to accept others and live. Why Did Amarnath pilgrims denied land???

  11. Why are u repeating all the articles? This article was there a year ago too. All old wine in new bottle. And you keep on writing the same things in all the articles. How Hindus never attacked anyone, how Jews settled in India but not persecuted. All these u repeat in every article.

  12. ajayae ali ram

    @ lost paradise

    well so true , man , i dont want any one to play religion bandwagon , just be happy that we are the “God” best creation & he loves all, so just want to say Francois is a real nasty ball breaker , he should be more liberal in his thinking , you know some days back i was visiting a city in the south , some of the locals were not liking my presence they thought i was a christian just becoz i was wearing a cross & they tried to intimidate me , for what? so i say hell with all those fanatism , let no religion be a barrier to shalke hands with my brothers & hug my sisters . so i say fuck you who tries that !!

  13. @ajayae ali ram

    This bloody bastard muslims are killing innocent people in every country and you dont have the balls to question a muslim. If you are man and if you do have balls, just go and tell the muslim fanatics to stop this before preaching this to the hindus. You bloody fucking secularists. You need to be kicked left and right.

  14. truth hurts..

  15. @ajayae ali

    No one hates christians because they are christians. If a buddhist arrives in some village people wont intimidate him because they feel he is harmless. But they dont feel the same about Christians any more. Kandhamal is just an exmaple.

    I am not saying intemidating you was correct but the reasons behind are not that “those people were fanatics” the actual reason was that the Christians need to introspect their conduct.

  16. @ajayae ali

    Why are angry with Francois and his articles ? Try to argue with him point by point if you have any. If not, just shut up man, don’t write your crap here.
    You write
    “just silly to ask muslims to leave the country just b’coz they are minority ” Are you that stupid ? They left India in 1947 on their own. Few shameless among them remained here even after getting their own country out of India.

    Tell me whats wrong in providing some shelter to Amarnath Pilgrimage while GOI gives subsidy for Haj ? Do you have any answer ? If no, just shut up.

  17. Good article, but as expected Francois only talks of one side and dismisses the other side. The most common rationale offered for violence against Christians in India, namely that the community is growing at an alarming rate through forced conversions is absurd. According to the Census of India- while the rate of growth of the Christian population was higher than that of the population as a whole between 1921 and 1971, the gap narrowed and was eventually reversed. Thus, between 1981 and 1991, Christians declined from 2.45% to 2.32% of the entire population. Moreover, while the population of India increased by 23.79% between 1981 and 1991, the Christian population grew by only 16.89% in the same period. . The Justice Wadhava Commission of Inquiry appointed by the Government of India came to the same conclusion, and it adds the interesting fact that between 1991 and 1998 the Hindu population increased by 2.5%, while the Christian population increased by 0.008%. Even if the allegations made by Hindu extremists were true, they cannot be offered as an excuse for violence against another religious community.

    Also, since Francois is so interested in the “causes” of mass murder by Hindu fanatics, he should maybe find out the causes of all conversions. Is it only because of money? What happens when that money is spent? Do these converts still choose to be Christians? If so, why? Also, is he, as usual, dismissing the fact that in many parts of India the low caste Hindus are treated worse than animals by the higher castes and not even allowed to worship in temples, which are used by the higher castes. If they aren’t even allowed to worship, then how can they follow that religion?! To use Francois own words – sometimes, Enough is Enough. At some point, after years or even centuries of submitting like sheep to slaughter – the low castes want their retribution.

    I’m all for strict anti-conversion laws to stop any conversion by trickery, fraud and/or coercion. Whoever violates these laws should be thrown in jail for 15-20 years. But, at the same time why are the existing laws against murdering, raping fanatics not being implemented?

  18. @ajaye ali
    hello my dear friend, first ur the bastard here, ur the mother fucker, son of a bitch who dosent have the guts to accept this u are a HINDU, and ur speaking about peace u asshole, stop this bull shitting and get ur private part removed and from tomorrow be a Neutral gender sala MADAR CHOD , as a famous movie dialogue “JIS THALI ME KATHA HAI USI PE CHEDH KARTHA HAI SALA MADHAR CHOD”, ppl like u should be hanged nakedly , u brinda kara, ur anathmurthy, pranay roy, barka datt, that bastard goswai should ne hanged nakedly, it will happen in some time and i promise i will drag u out og=f ur fox hole asshole and fuck ur mother fucking ass , TELL ME HOW MANY TIMES U HAVE SLEPT WITH UR MOTHER OR SISTERS U PEACE LOVING SECULAR BASTARD, bEFORE WE KICK UR ASS GET OUT OF BARATH

    @joe
    my dear joieee fuck ur ass and get out of this country ur bastardly evangelists, have u read any thing from our VEDIC SCRIPTURES, OR BAGWAD GEETA THAT WE NEED UR POPE”S SOLACE , FROM VATICAN???
    TELL ME JOIE HOW MANY OF THE CONVERTED HAVE COME TO U VOLUNTARILY AND SAY WE HAVE FAITH IN JESUS , TELL THE MOTHER FUCKING GOVT TO GIVE ALL OUR TEMPES BACK AND TELL THAT CORRUPT BASTARDS TO GIVE THE MONEY GENERATED FORM THE TEMPLES TO US BACK WE WE WILL SHOW U HOW THEY WILL COME BACK
    BASTARDS

  19. Hindu, you are obviously a retard. You’re entire directionless ranting has proved that you are void of any intelligence to make a sound argument of any kind. You’re obviously obfuscating by cussing to hide this lack of intelligence. Unfortunately for you, the more you do so the more you’re proving your retardness. If you disagree with something I have said, try to articulate it intelligently – or is intelligence too much to expect from someone like. BTW, I have read the most if not all of the vedas extensively, which I’m sure you have not. IF you have something to tell the govt., then do so yourself you coward. Last point – you can only scream and shout and ask people like me to get out of India….it’s hilarious cause that’s all you can do and nothing else. Who the hell is going to listen to someone like you? LOL!

  20. ajayae ali ram

    @Hindu , @Indian, well i can only say you guyz are class act cunt whore pll, who doesnt believe in coexisting , you guyz really shame , cuz you ppl hv failed as human bein , well dont tell me who I’m , i fuck know who the hell I’m , so just stfu fags , i dont know why you guyz were even born ,just to add up fanaticism & fuck shyt on your religion , no religion is bigger than human race , so just copy that low life ppl, so stop swearing at me in Hindi, i know more than you think “Queers’, so bioutch don’t tell who should be ashamed to live in this country or who shouldnt , well i know you would just try bash me up again , well i hv no whatsoever intelligence against fellows like you, cuz your justa fuck-head who belives in hatred & bullshyt norms which doesnt even exists no more.

  21. @ajaye ali ur ram
    abey oh!! gadhe ki aulad!! wake up u bugger if u can find peace from A HINDU u cant find it from anyone else first u WASh ur shit fried SECULAR head with acid and then talk about all other bull shit about tolerence and etc… dont teach me about that its there in my blood!! and one more thing first go and hang ur self! ur no different from other idiots like teeshta sheetalvad etc etc ?? and second thing if ur are born i a hindu community the dont tell anyone !! ur a disgrace to the whole community !! UR TEACHING US ABOUT PEACE WHERE WERE U PEACE ASHOLES WHEN SWAMI LAKSHMANANDA SARASWATHI WAS KILLED IN COLD BLOOD ?? WHERE WERE U WHEN TIRUPATHI WAS THREATHENED ?? WHERE WERE U MOTHER FUCKERS WHEN THE GOVT ANNOUNCED MORE RIGHTS TO MINORITIES??? WHERE WERE U ASSHOLES WHER THE KASHMIRI PANDITS WHO ARE STILL GOING THROUGH HELL IN THERE OWN COUNTRY ?? oNE MORE QUESTION I WANT TO ASK IF I COME TO UR HOME AND DEMAND EVERYTHING AS U DO FROM UR WIFE AND EVEN DEPRIVE UR CHILDREN AND OTHER MEMBERS OF UR FAMILY FROM EVERYTHING WHICH IS RIGHTFULLY URS AND SLEEP IN UR BEDROOM DEPRIVING U OF EVERYTHING HOW DO U FEEL ?? WHEN UR SLOGGING UR AS TO EARN FOR THE LIVING OF UR FAMILY AND WHEN UR OWN IDENTITY IS LOST IN UR OWN HOME AND ITS NATURAL FOR EVRY ONE TO PROTECT IT AND THATS WHAT HAS BEEN MENTIONED, AND WHO TOLD BLOOD BATH IS THE ONLY WAY ANLY MUDHEADED GANDU LIKE U CAN THINK AND SO CALLLED SECULARS LIKE U CAN THINK AND VERYONE IN THIS COUNTRY IS CONVERTED GOT IT ?? do want me to speak more u gandu sala??

  22. my dear joe.

    Intelligent !! intelligence !! coward !! hmmm ur means UR COMMUNITY is still being respected in this country because of our cowardice (ACCORDING to u )
    . if ur living peacefully in this country because of our cowardice right ?? tell me joe if u have studied veads then the question of u articulating and then waiting for responses from us wouldn’t have araised at all !!u would have accepted whats happening around and closed ur shop right ?? u know in this country anything can be manipulated !! tell me about the recent census?

  23. joe who are u to decide whats enough ?? have u seen the countries where ur communtiy is more is falling apart !! see russia!! see australia they dont know whats brotherhood and how to accept other communities ?? and ur teaching about peace and brotherhood here ?? tell me how u ppl formed USA !! till now in the name of peace etc etc u ahve destabilised the whole society !! see america its in shambles !! AND IN OUR OWN TERMS ENOUGH IS ENOUGH GET OUT OF THIS COUNTRY

  24. The foul language being used by many posters here is revolting. I hope in the future such posts are deleted. Foul words does not make one’s point stronger, it makes one look LESS articulate.

  25. Gautier, it would be helpful to see how ideas of equality, human rights, democracy are not being applied fairly to Hindus. How are the ways Hindus are being treated in India that is not really secular values.

    Liberalism and secularism should not devolve into reverse discrimination. Equal opportunities should not devolve into less than equal opportunities for the majority for the sake of the minority. Secularism should not devolve into hatred for religions, or favoritism of the minority religion and discrimination of the majority. If the whole point is equal opportunity the pie needs to be expanded, not start discriminating against another group of people.

  26. Actually, caste is not an Indian word, “Casta” – “It is derived from the older Latin word castus, “chaste,” implying that the lineage has been kept pure. Casta gave rise to the English word caste during the Early Modern Period.[1] [2]

    The Portuguese misunderstood and projected their own classification, “Casta is a Portuguese and Spanish term used in seventeenth and eighteenth centuries mainly in Spanish America to describe as a whole the mixed-race people which appeared in the post-Conquest period. In English the term, casta also refers to the colonial Spanish American system of social stratification based on a person’s racial heritage that evolved along with the rise in miscegenation. A parallel system of categorization based on the degree of acculturation to Hispanic culture, which distinguished between gente de razón (Hispanics) and gente sin razón (non-acculturated people), concurrently existed and worked together with the idea of casta.” http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castas

    – What is written in Hinduism is Varna, and is the way they categorized jobs. This was not inherited.

    – Jati or community in English, applies to any community. One is born into a community. This is inherited.

    – Inherited class status is a problem throughout the world.

    A Jati may be known for a certain trade, and that work fit into one of the four Varna job categories, and there was more fluidity historically.

    To me it would be more helpful if those who write about Hindu communities never use the English word Caste that was derived from the Portuguese Casta. It is misleading, and mixes varna, jati, and inherited class status. If one had to describe what is in Hinduism and in the greater Indian society, how would you do it without using the European term, caste?

  27. Example of class problem in another part of the world: “The buraku — ethnically indistinguishable from other Japanese — are descendants of Japanese who, according to Buddhist beliefs, performed tasks considered unclean. Slaughterers, undertakers, executioners and town guards, they were called eta, which means defiled mass, or hinin, nonhuman. Forced to wear telltale clothing, they were segregated into their own neighborhoods.” http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/16/world/asia/16outcasts.html?_r=1&scp=10&sq=Japan%20eta&st=cse

    What incorrectly has been attributed to the Hindu religion (Hinduism only speaks of the four varna) is actually an attribute of universal class conflict.

  28. Hindu:

    1. Please don’t try to instigate things by saying that when I referred to your SOLE cowardice that I was referring to the entire HINDU community. Read what I wrote. You said “TELL THE MOTHER FUCKING GOVT TO GIVE ALL OUR TEMPES BACK AND TELL THAT CORRUPT BASTARDS TO GIVE THE MONEY GENERATED FORM THE TEMPLES TO US BACK WE WILL SHOW U HOW THEY WILL COME BACK” , to which I replied “IF you have something to tell the govt., then do so yourself you coward.” Don’t you have the guts to agitate for your “rights” the way you perceive it? Why the hell should I or anyone else do your work?
    2. Why should I articulate what the Vedas have to say? It’s clear for any sensible person that has read the Vedas to know what it states and in what context – and it’s the total opposite of the hate and venom you are spewing. It’s most likely that you haven’t read the Vedas or you have been misinformed by someone as to its contents. More importantly, the article my Francois does not deal with the Vedas and so I didn’t refer to the Vedas. The topic of the Vedas only came about when you asked me whether I have read it and I replied in the affirmative.
    3. You mentioned “u would have accepted whats happening around and closed ur shop right ??” Are you insinuating that I am turning a blind eye towards the so-called forcible conversions? I made it amply clear in my first posting (before your ranting) that I am all for very tough laws against any kind of conversion by force, trickery, etc. But, I also mentioned that why aren’t the current laws not being implemented for people who are murdering, raping, etc. in the name of “protecting” a religion. Your silence here proves that you condone such acts of barbarism.
    4. The latest Govt. of India Census is for 2001 – it comes out every 10 years. So the latest, which came out during the BJP rule at the center showed that the Christian population has DECREASED from 2.32% to 2.30%. You can easily get this information by filing an RTI with – Office of the Registrar General, India, 2A, Mansingh Road, New Delhi-110 011, India. This is how I got the information. And, you are right, in a country like India, anything can be manipulated. So why would the BJP manipulate the results to show a decreased Christian population?
    5. I never decide of what’s enough is enough for anyone – I was merely using Francois own words to show any another perspective of the lower castes. BTW, I clearly mentioned that I am using Francois own words. I am surprised and bored that I have to repeat such things that are clearly mentioned (not implied). It really baffles me that you are asking questions to things that are already explained – all you have to do is read and understand Francois’ article, my opinion, your ranting, and my initial reply to your ranting.
    6. I am an Indian and am articulating only from an Indian perspective. Of course I condemn what’s happening in Australia or any other country against Indians, just as I condemn how some Indians are targeting some other Indian within India. But, what happens in America, Russia, and Australia is not very relevant to me in terms of this article – because I am primarily bothered to what happens in MY country. BTW, all the 3 aforementioned countries are secular countries (just like India) and just because there is a Christian majority in these countries, the government & their constitution doesn’t believe in mixing church and state – similar to India. But this is something that people like you are trying to change in India – similar to the Taliban in Afghanistan and in Pakistan. You mentioned “till now in the name of peace etc etc u ahve destabilised the whole society!! “ First and foremost, I never spoke about brotherhood, peace, etc. Give me an example of where I said so. Out of curiosity, how does peace in any society “destabilize” it? I guess anarchy and bloodshed are the ways to attain peace..LOL. In addition, before pointing fingers at others, let us look at how we treat communities, castes, class, color, gender, etc. within our own country. Also, should the westerns think that we are racist because foreign tourists are sometimes robbed, molested, raped or killed by Indians in India?
    7. You said “AND IN OUR OWN TERMS ENOUGH IS ENOUGH GET OUT OF THIS COUNTRY”… Again you’re repeating something that you know is of not going to make an iota of difference to me. I’m staying and I know you can’t do anything about it. Hindu, the problem is that your ranting shows severe signs of xenophobia. If you try to make friends with people with other communities and castes, you would probably stop being so myopic.

  29. ML, it was a pleasure reading your comments. I particularly liked what you mentioned: “Liberalism and secularism should not devolve into reverse discrimination. Equal opportunities should not devolve into less than equal opportunities for the majority for the sake of the minority. Secularism should not devolve into hatred for religions, or favoritism of the minority religion and discrimination of the majority. If the whole point is equal opportunity the pie needs to be expanded, not start discriminating against another group of people.” I strongly believe that for our country to progress ALL laws (civil, economic, education, property, etc.) that give preferential treatment to any one community should be abolished and we need ONE law for all citizens. I would make just one exception, i.e. the Govt. must provide free/subsidized education (only up to 10th grade) for those that can’t afford it, irrespective of religion and caste.

  30. I concur that there should be one law applicable to every individual. I also agree that education should be free for people of all religions and I will use the term community (I prefer not not use the term, “caste” for the above reasons mentioned). I would go further and make it free for all irrespective of ability to pay. It would seem to me that would be in the line of increasing the pie for everyone without discriminating against anyone. Education in its people is an investment ALL governments should make. I would prefer that education be of high quality and free through at least university. I think there also should be opportunities for different types of education, meaning apprenticeships, because not everyone is bookish and that’s okay.

    I think there needs to be greater awareness that speaking up for Hindus is in tune with secular/liberal values. In fact I believe that by doing so is healing, and can reduce the anger. It seems that any legitimate grievances are not addressed in part because of Hindus are the majority in terms of population size. This discrimination fuels anger and polarizes more. I also get the sense that people confuse being a doormat with non-violence. I would say non-violence requires speaking up. For instance speak up regarding the lack of reciprocity that Gautier mentioned, and do it earlier and more often. You don’t need violence to do it or angry words. But speak up about being fair, of reciprocity, and do it when it happens and do it for Hindus, the majority as well as the minorities. Just because they are the population majority doesn’t mean they don’t need help, and they are not being discriminated against.

  31. ML, when I speak of education, it doesn’t necessarily mean only book knowledge or professional knowledge. But, I definitely feel that one of the key factors for our country to become a developed one is that all primary education should be free and if possible mandatory. After a primary education, whether one wants to become a carpenter or an engineer is one’s call to make.

    I definitely concur with your approach to reducing anger i.e. by speaking up for Hindus. If Hindus feel that they are being discriminated against, then speaking for & agitating (peacefully) for Hindu rights is the correct & sensible thing to do. A default (Hindus being a majority) cannot be turned into a handicap (being discriminated). However, any violence being meted in the name of rights is deplorable and will only cause fissions and anarchy – which can never lead to any true development.

  32. Violence also distracts – speaking practically. When one brings violence into the problem, people start to shift focus to that. It becomes a law and order issue. Violence gives people an excuse not to pay attention to the grievances at the source of the violence, and whatever you were talking about can get easily dismissed. Like I said above, non-violence is not about being a doormat. It is about speaking up.

    It would also help if people of other faiths speak up for Hindus. For instance Christians who are against unethical conversion practices that are going on that Gautier mentioned, should speak up, both for their own purpose since the unethical conversions would reflect poorly on their faith that they hold dear, but also for the people such as Hindus, or other faiths targeted, because it is causing them undue pain and you end up with Hindus distrusting Christians, Sometimes violence done to a community is not necessarily physical. I think both Christians and Hindus who are against unethical conversion practices should speak up in a non-violent matter.

    If people did that and early on, things would not get to such a boiling point.

    For the vast majority of conflicts during peace time, a non-violent course of action is best. If for no other reason, than you want people’s attention focused on the problem at hand.

  33. hey joey!!!
    U mentioned that i only know how to make hate speeches and how to bring communal disharmony !! u know when ppl push u against the wall its natural that u get pisses off and kick the opp’s ass and u go through this link and u will know y i get pissed of xians and y i am suspicious always of these slow poison community
    http://myexperimentsagainstprejudice.blogspot.com/2009/04/how-to-convert-hindus-on-campus.html
    JUST DONT FORGET TO READ THROUGH THIS LINK JOEY

  34. AND of course to all my brethren who are awae of this SANATHANA DHARMA should go through this blog, how our kids are being poisoned by these x’ians and this is a circular by a ministry !!

  35. correction “circular by a ministry” what i meant was this is circular by interior ministry of that country and how this pranay roy’s, barkha dutt’s are eating through us!! we should kick their ass and should throw all these NDTV’s, CNN IBN,s, all the media and news channnels out of this country, first step tp strengthen just blast every media like this in our country which are being owned by all the x’ians and muslim lobby !! STOP THEM NOW

  36. Joe,

    I recalled an article written in Newsweek, that was unusual in that it wrote of Dalit Brahmin unity:

    “…Mayawati’s masterstroke was to recognize that upper-caste Brahmins also felt ignored by the middle castes, which had come to dominate regional politics in the 1990s. These middle castes owned land, got the most jobs under India’s generous quota system and managed to win electoral control of big states like UP and Bihar. They “terrorized the Dalits in villages,” says Dipankar Gupta, who has written several books on India’s caste system, and “they also usurped government jobs in cities, alienating the Brahmins.” During the three-year rule of the middle-caste Samajwadi Party in UP, for example, nearly 12,000 new police were hired—but few were Brahmins or Dalits.

    So “Behenji” (the term means “respected sister”) began to forge a solid high-low alliance. She made a Brahmin lawyer named Satish Mishra into one of her closest advisers and her envoy to his fellow caste-members. Mishra, who called this “the beginning of the BSP’s mission to establish a parallel society, sans the traditional vertical hierarchy,” held hundreds of meetings in villages and towns to let disgruntled Brahmins air their grievances. Mayawati dropped her angry anti-Brahmin rhetoric. And she started fielding Brahmins and Muslims in local council elections and the recent statewide vote.

    The strategy paid off, but can it work nationwide? Yes, says political scientist Ajay Mehra: Brahmins all over India feel the Congress has abandoned them in favor of the middle castes, which it has tried to win over by extending quotas in jobs and education….”
    Reordering India’s Caste System
    How one politician has begun reordering the country’s politics
    By Sudip Mazumdar
    Newsweek International

    I think this touches upon what we discussed and mutually agree about class discrimination is re-ordered by the India’s government policies, not eliminated. This, re-ordering, is not a liberal/secular value. What I see hear is some politicians see that vilifying and discriminating Brahmins all these years has not ended class discrimination, which should have been the real goal, but made Brahmins ANOTHER group of people who are discriminated. Now what groups are left – the middle class. So instead of trying NOW to end class discrimination across the board, the political plan now is to pit Dalits AND BRAHMINS against the middle class. What happens when the middle class is discriminated? Who will politicians pit the Dalits, Brahmins, and Middle class against? Who is left? It does not seem to me that India focused on ending class discrimination as much as much as discriminate against another group of people, and merely altering who gets favoritism. Gautier also wrote on “Are the Brahmins the New Dalits?” https://francoisgautier.wordpress.com/2008/04/16/are-brahmins-todays-dalits-in-india

    Equal opportunity is not spread. Discrimination and poverty is spread.

  37. hey joey!!!
    y dont u see the world around u , christian missionaries went to america and erased the whole red indian tibes famous saying by evangelists is that the ignorant ppl were liberated!! do u know how that tribe used to function??? they were with and around the nature!! secondly africa how many tribes have lost their identity ??? .. Do u know the status of american social structure ??? they dont have any balance at all … it’s total chaos !!! anybody can sleep with anybody’s wife !!

    ofcourse i accept there are feudal issues in hinduism!! but by keeping that u cant destroy the SANATHANA DHARMA right???

    If i am right i have seen a new quota coming into existance for DALIT CHRISTIANS what does it mean u too discriminate based on caste is it joey??
    i have seen churches for recently and freshly converted lower caste ppl a seperate church and upper caste christians dont allow them to their masses what u have to say for this joey???
    now dont say that u only think about our country INDIA !! i know ur patriotic but see the chaos and damage caused by foolish christian missionaries around the world

    and one more thing dont try tp teach peace,love,belogingness etc etc to us its in our blood??? irrespective of caste a neighbour will come to ur rescure when ur in dire need , its not the social security card or 911 will come to the rescue this will happen only in HINDUSTAN because of the deeply imbibed human values , which is being preserved as culture still now !! every morning we respect every being in this universe in the name of prayers !! this can only happen in this culture !! and we easily accept and respect every other culture equally !!
    now dont pick a few lines from this and try to manipulate this if u have understood vedas and upanishads u will quitely accept my words saying what ur community is doing in the name of DHARMA IS ADHARMA

    a hindu’s anger is not good, because it dosent come easliy and when it comes its equivalent to tsunami and every other natural disaster !! so co operate to preserve this SANATHANA DHARMA

    shocked to see my other face is it joey??

  38. ML
    the question here is not about the feudal hinduism its about SANATHANA DHARMA is not different even for a muslim and history depicts it !! the so called secularists dont know SANATHANA DHARMA and brag about the feudal past !! OK TELL ME THE COUNTRY IS INDEPENDANT FROM PAST FIFTY YEARS TILL NOW how many of our oppressed class have been brought up !! how many politicians who dosent know human values have taken serious measures to bring them us !!
    see they are only doing minority appeasement which in a way ur(we all) also to be blamed !!
    tell me ML BRAHIMINISM , BRAHMINISM ur blaming one community !! what measures have been taken to safe guard the interests of the oppressed class !! only the pll who are well off from this class are enjoying all the previledges and y quota for christians and muslims ?? when our ppl from oppressed class ppl are not fuly being brought to the main stream, if u go to villages still our ppl are struggling irrespective of caste !!

    now tell me y the govt to appease minorities are giving the funds collected from temples to churches and mosques dont they generate enough funds?? and basically the money generated from temples is for the overall development of hindu community!! ?? y ppl are not asking this !! and when we get our money back where is the question of quota comes ?? every person will be equal and happy !! and thus religious conversion will be stopped !! tell joey to implemet this rather than lamenting on only my outburst !!!this is my honest thoughts!!

    @joey
    u dint vote to BJP and thats the reason y ur still suffering do u know that ?? if the question of minority appeasement doesnt arise then the exact governance will happen !! if the funds from temples are not used for condtruction of mosques and haj and construction of churches !! the conversion will stop got it joey??

  39. Hindu,

    In my posts, my point was that class problems exist everywhere, and is NOT unique to Hinduism. I separated Varna in Hinduism from jati, inherited class status, and the European term, “caste.” Also I did not blame Brahmins, in fact my posts were critical of other people who blamed Brahmins. I wrote that I don’t think it is right to discriminate against the majority, in this case Hindus in India, for the sake of the minority. I don’t think that is true liberal/secular values. What is a liberal/secular value is that equal opportunity be there for both majority and minority communities. In my posts with Joe above I wrote about how unethical conversion practices are NOT right and are not in tune with liberal/secular values.

    Reverse discrimination that is in India does not create an environment of equal opportunity irrespective of religion or community, but merely spreads discrimination in another way as well as spread poverty and not wealth.

  40. hi ML

    i completely agree with u regarding things related to caste and regarding joe’s posts and yeah but these ppl who are ruling really need spiritual education on sanathana dharma thats how this can be stopped !! u should have seen other blog posts by FG and u can see a blog mentioning about maculualy and from then on we are still struggling to cope with the aftermath and our foolish ppl are still voting for ppl who are dividing and diminishing .. i hope u have pointed ur browser for the link which i pasted with my last post !! u will see how grave the issue is

  41. I clicked on your post and saw the link. I see where you are coming from. Such subterfuge is unethical. I hope you do take heart in this – what the missionaries are doing when they target Hindus, is not really new. Christianity is a religion from West Asia (the Middle East is part of the Asian subcontinent). The continent today Christianity is even more associated with now is Europe. There was hundreds of years of witch burning and hundreds of years of the Inquisition. Nearly all European religions no longer exist today. All were replaced by the Asian religion of Christianity in the early years of when it spread. The Renaissance was the beginning of the push back against intolerant monotheism of Christianity, but that too took centuries. There is no European religion that a European can return to. Secularism, liberalism end up being alternatives to monotheistic Christianity.

    So it is not about “Hinduism” or “Hindus” but about all religions not Christian version of monotheism and non-Christians. As hard as it is today, at least Hinduism still exists, Hindu scriptures were not destroyed, Hindu rituals are documents in print and video. So much less remains of indigenous European religions. So too many South American indigenous religions are wiped out. The Spanish were brutal when they conquered the Americans. So much knowledge in the Americas was deliberately destroyed. So I hope you find solace in that Hinduism survived far more intact, and more likely will survive.

  42. That is not to say one should not speak up about unethical conversions and reverse discrimination of today. If anything more people should speak up about such things, more frequently, much sooner, and non-violently for the reasons I mentioned above.

  43. @ML
    Yes you are correct. Hindus either over react or does not react at all. That’s where the problem lies. Look at Christianity, they do all worst things under the hood and that to so smooth in PR (public relations).
    The first thing we should is more blogs,TV(dedicated),more PR. And also, constant speaking up against these conversions. Otherwise, we will end up becoming Africa. Its happening fast.. so be vigilant, and speak up…

  44. I agree with Pavan! Most probably Hindu persecution is not being properly marketed to get favourable international attention as well as internal attention.

  45. @pavan and @indian

    friends if u see all the news papers and media is owned by the christian lobby and muslim lobby and ppl like barka , rajdeep pranay roy are all half baked who will wor against and ppl like teestha seetalwad will lick even shit to earn favors from the pro christian govt when its the case how will ppl know whats happening around the ppl in city completely ape the west and they dont want this life style to be changed and the ppl in the villages are ignorant to these things happening around and they are still in the era of mahatma gandhi!! and at the same time the muslim population is rising at alarming rate whole UP is muslim dominated and still they are minorities and Whole north east is baptised!! everything is strategy !! how will u do it and the only efeective way is make ppl understand is human network and funds needed to make our ppl who are poor and still struggling for two square meals in villages and slums rehabilitae them now and important thing is first we have to get back all out mutts and temples from the govt the money generated is used for haj and also for church development is it their fathers!! for this we have to stand up and vote for the better and pro hinduism this time which dint happen this time !! these are the things which i observed in the actual Hindustan . so educate more and more Hindu youths about our dharma and its such a beautiful thing we are born in this sacred place !! we have to rev up the faith of our ppl in our dharma !! so it depends on all of us what do u say friends??

  46. fuck bjp , hinu parishad & rss , bar ranj dal All all those shyt ppl who only endoreses communilism

  47. Gautier, can something be done to filter out posts filled with foul language. This thread got past it and then someone new starts cursing again.

  48. @aj ali ram

    please dont use derogaratory words against organisations which are working against unethical conversion. If you are against communalism, please use the same words against muslim fundamental organisations too. It is clearly evident you are not against communalism or fundamentalism of any type. You are against hindu organisations, which are branded communal by some guy called Rajdeep sardesai and his wife. Shame on you, shame shame……..

  49. ajayae ali ram

    @ ram

    Well not just Hindu outfit i denounce every terror outfit !! they should be wiped out , before they be a cancer in our society , which is evident now. We all should take collective measure to fight this disillusioned & mis guided people, there is notthin more valued than a human life & no , i mean no religion in bigger than a Human life , cuz if there’s no human who’s gonna preach the religion.I dont endore any Rajeed sardesai or anyone for that matter we are each to our own.

    ~~Love & Peace~~

  50. truth hurts…
    it is true that the hindu majority are suffering… again this has nothing to do with religion, religion is just a tool.. the actual idea is the natural resources… look at the conversions taking place… they are mostly in tribal areas… which is rich in natural resources…

  51. @ajay ali aur ram

    hmmm he he he !! what a pity!! what a pity!! in the name of peace ur masking ur cowardice what do u say?? first be proud to which community u belong u fool!!
    See the richness in that religion !! if u loose ur identity u fool !! u r like that u know ennuch got it ??
    see if ur in russia u wear minsk coat and cover up urself allround and if u wear dhoti there u r considered as fool and u will die out of frost !! in the same way this country has some rituals and HUMAN VALUES in HINDU culture which will be lost if u sit simply taking no actions against conversions!!

    tell me how much u have done to create peace and awareness around u ?? tell me how much ur peace with urself?? if ur not in peace with urself then god save the ppl near to u!! let alone wiping out terrorism from the face of earth!! ur cant erase the word from dictionary

    wake up u fool !! first be proud about ur identity and think about loosing ur identity !! as NONE u cant mask ur idiocy with that deep knowledge

    THEY SAY “MURKAM NA AUSHADOU” u belong to that category !! first do social service then u have the right to talk about all these peace etc etc

  52. @ ajay ali aur ram
    i feel soory at ur state deeply stressed my friend !! friends plz give him everyday roses so he can become healthy
    he is too stressed so he is pissed of with every thing around him

    OR OR he is a converted

  53. Really brilliant and incisive article, learned a great deal from it. I completely agree with your views and I am further moved that a “Westerner and a born Christian” so truthfully defends my native India! Om ~

  54. jai gurudev francois,
    just one request, i think there is no point in arguing with you about anything but, just read the comments your post has generated. only thing you can see is hatred, its heartbreaking to see how guruji’s message of ‘one world one family’ is lost and distorted by many of his ardent followers and you seem to be no exception to that.

  55. One world one family should not be about being silent about what you see that is wrong. That is an unhealthy family and unhealthy world where all the problems are just not spoken about so to keep the “peace” which is no peace at all.

    Freedom of speech is valued in democracies because that is the healthiest way to deal with conflicts. Everyone should express their views and people should engage in debate. Non-violence is about speaking up, is about engaging in the conflict that is there, but without physical or verbal violence which does not help but only distracts.

    Gautier is speaking of wrongs that are happening that very few people speak about. These are real issues that will not go away just by not talking about it, and should not be swept under the rug for the hollow version of one world one family. I would think that the people Gautier writes about are part of that one world one family whose issues deserve to be heard, instead of them being sacrificed for a fake one world one family. Who wants to be part of a world and family that doesn’t care about their sufferings, the violence done to them, the injustice they’ve faced? That is not a world or a family worth belonging to.

  56. As the saying goes “No justice, no peace.”

  57. “…four hundred thousand Hindus, were chased out of the Valley by terror, many of them having been murdered and that many were still living as refugees in camps in Jammu and Delhi….”

    Things like this may put a dent in the one world one family vision, but it is those who did this to the Hindus who put that dent, not the Hindus who ended up dead or as refugees and not Gautier who wrote about their plight.

    I say if anything Gautier by speaking up for those who are forgotten is creating a more viable world for people like these, and is helping progress the human family to care for them too.

  58. Hello anushree,
    y are u bringing guruji and all into this??.. This is personally mentioned that ITS HIS PERSONAL VIEWS AND FOR GOD SAKE ITS A BLOG.. Dont bring guruji into this and yes a society has different ppl of different mentality who express their views in their own way and what has to do with guruji and his message ????. I dont understand what ur scared about??

  59. This book “The Born Again Skeptic’s Guide to the Bible” by Ruth Hurmence Green will help anyone who wishes to refute missionary theological verbal attacks.

  60. What are these comments. Are there any moderators here or not.

    Is the purpose, here discussion or is it some flea market. Why is it so difficult to keep to the point and respect the subject.

  61. “Tolerance is a Cooperative Value

    The most important thing to understand about tolerance is that it is a cooperative value. It can only work by way of mutual agreement. A one sided tolerance translates either as disdain or fearful appeasement. It is often this second kind of tolerance that people speak of today, when they describe how they tolerate a noisy neighbor or a difficult family member. What they really mean is they have become unwilling to respond to offensive behavior out of fear or more commonly a sense of futility. This is the brand of tolerance that most Americans practice today, dutifully ignoring offenses, until something occurs that passes all boundaries of decency. Like the Ground Zero Mosque.

    Contrary to the perceptions of the political and cultural elites who view Americans with a careful disdain, the average American is neither blind, ignorant nor stupid. Whether or not he reads the papers or follows the news, he is well aware of who carried out 9/11 and numerous attacks before and since. He has never read the Koran, but he has seen enough terrorists holding it up to get the idea. He has never been inside a mosque, but he knows that far too many terrorists have. And he can count well enough to find the vigorous delinking of Islam and terrorism propounded by the political and cultural elites to be thoroughly unconvincing. Because even while he wades ankle deep in the media’s stream of propaganda, his judgments are made based on common sense. And common sense is that when people are trying to kill him, they are probably not his friends.

    But he has been patient and held his peace. He has been tolerant, not in the sense that liberals define tolerance, but in the way that they have imposed it. His tolerance has been silence and inaction. He has gone on with his life, tending to his work and his family. He has not embraced Islam, but neither has he thrown rocks at the windows of mosques or torched the green Saudi flag, or practiced any of the other behaviors that non-Muslims are often on the receiving end of, in the far less tolerant Muslim world. But that silent tolerance has been tested, again and again by American Islamists and their protectors among the political and cultural elites, who had taken his silence for consent. And in truth his silence had more of Walsh’s The Quiet Man to it, than that of the downtrodden Dhimmi slave. He had learned that in a changing country it was best not to take offense, to go your own way and look away from what you did not care to see. This form of tolerance he had been told was American, but as a river has its banks, so too tolerance has its limits. And a moment must come, when the quiet man decides to be quiet no more.

    George Washington had understood early on that talk of tolerance was a dangerous thing, because it implies a power relationship. Where legal rights are premised on equality, tolerance contains within it a germ of disdain or fear. That is because tolerance is most often the result of an unequal power relationship. And that brand of tolerance is unsustainable, as the power relationship itself. Only tolerance as a cooperative value can be sustained, but for tolerance to truly be a cooperative value, all parties must be equally committed to tolerating what they dislike about one another.

    What is the purpose of such tolerance? It is to serve as a “fence of civility” beyond the limits of the law. It is what prevents people from protesting at funerals or in front of private residences, even when such actions are legal. It maintains certain standards of public behavior, even when such standards may not be defensible under some readings of the Constitution. It does not impose on others, what they would not want imposed on themselves. It respects their values, as we would like our values to be respected. Such mutual tolerance prevents a nation from boiling down into ruthless squabbling and violent chaos. It places limits on political conflict and religious imposition in the name of common decency. And we hold to those limits, even toward those we only tolerate, but do not admire, love or even care for very much.

    Such tolerance however only functions when it is mutual. Assorted lunatics and crazies may flout it, but their doing so will exclude them from having any meaningful say. Their lack of tolerance for others alone does not upset the applecart. But when a large group demands tolerance, but is unwilling to show it, then tolerance takes on the form of an unequal power relationship. What used to be a fence between two neighbors, instead becomes a swinging gate that only one neighbor has the power to use any time he pleases. The other neighbor is told that tolerance requires him to look away when that happens and make no protest over it. And if he attempts to use the gate himself, the police are immediately called.

    This is what tolerance looks like in America today. An unequal power relationship implemented, paradoxically, in the name of ending unequal power relationships. But layering more inequality over inequality does not bring healing, it only perpetuates grievance by taking existing power struggles into a new phase.

    But in the case of Islam, talk of inequality is a farce. Muslims have never been unequal in America. They have never been taken out of their homes and interned for their race alone, or brought here as slaves, denied a decent education or used as experimental subjects. They have in fact been shown vastly more tolerance than they have ever shown others in their entire history. And that alone is a damning indictment of Muslim civilization as we know it.

    When Muslims complain about Islamophobia, they are mainly complaining about law enforcement measures taken in response to Muslim terrorism, and blowback from ordinary Americans in response to the same. This is profoundly different from the experiences of immigrants and slaves who were discriminated against on the basis of their race or religion. Islamist organizations are cynically piggybacking on the legitimate civil rights struggles of American minorities, in order to promote a foreign agenda. That agenda continues to be paid for by oil money and dictated out of Saudi Arabia, a country which does not extend civil rights even to 50 percent of its own Arab Muslim population, let alone to its vast numbers of non-Arab and non-Muslim workers and slaves.

    The ugly truth is that for as long as Muslim communities and mosques in America continue to harbor, and give aid and comfort to terrorists, then both law enforcement and ordinary Americans will have good reason to be suspicious of their loyalties. And beyond even the terrorist threat, it is easy enough to look across the ocean to Europe, where Muslims have begun to terrorize non-Muslim minorities, including Jews and Sikhs, and even the nation’s Christian European majorities. Above it all hangs the specter of Sharia or Islamic law, a barbaric system of jurisprudence that denies equality to women and non-Muslims.

    When Americans look to Muslim leaders for reassurance, they instead receive doubletalk and indignation. They are left to parse ambiguous condemnations of terrorism by Muslim leaders who are employing a definition of terrorism that encompasses the actions of the US Marines, but not those of many Muslim terrorist groups. There are assurances that Sharia is a wonderful thing, and no willingness to disavow the horrors that Sharia has brought to Pakistan or Iran or Saudi Arabia. And the same liberals who treat The Handmaid’s Tale as a true warning about the threat of Christian Dominionism, dismiss any talk of the threat of Islamic law as “intolerant”.

    But intolerant to what and to whom? It is surely not the intolerance of 50 percent of the population who are deprived of legal equality under Islamic law. Or that of all non-Muslim minorities who are faced with legal second-class status under this arrangement. And that raises the larger question, can one truly be intolerant of an intolerant thing? Islamic law is undeniably and unambiguously intolerant. As a theoretical matter, we can look away from it. But to look away from it, once it is being implemented non-consensually is to give in to intolerance.

    It does not require some sort of Muslim takeover of the United States to see the legal consequences of the intolerance of Islamic law. When the Grand Mufti of Australia justifies the gang rape of non-Muslim women by calling them “uncovered meat” and claiming that they are responsible for being raped, and not the rapists– we are seeing the ugly reality of Islamic law in practice, in the same way that women in Pakistan or Dubai are seeing it. Women no longer need to go to a Muslim country to be subject to Islamic law. They can be subject to it right where they live. It may be violent and not strictly legal, but law is ultimately defined by common practice, rather than the other way around. And judges are already beginning to defer to the Muslim view of rape, in America and Europe.

    When a country fills up with people who live by different values and laws than the natives, mutual tolerance can avert a conflict. But it must truly be mutual. And while Americans have bent over backward to accommodate the rituals and beliefs of Muslims, there has been absolutely no reciprocity from the other side. And that is the real story of the Ground Zero Mosque. It is a wake up call because it demonstrates the absolute unwillingness of Muslims to show any tolerance whatsoever for the pain and suffering of the very people they victimized nine years ago. While Non-Muslims are expected not to bring a bottle of wine from the duty free shop into a Muslim airport cab or eat in front of a Muslim during Ramadan– Muslims cannot seem to even have the basic decency not to capitalize on a terrorist attack to grab up some real estate on the cheap and then build a giant mosque complex in an area where there are fewer Muslims than in most parts of Tokyo.

    Americans oppose the Ground Zero Mosque because they know it for what it is, an act of intolerance. An ugly activity that exposes the contempt and the unequal power relationship that now exists between Muslims and Americans. If Muslims will not tolerate Americans insofar as to respect Ground Zero, then what exactly will they respect? There is no answer, because the answer is nothing. The constant demands for tolerance represent the same unsustainable and unequal power relationship that is bringing Europe to its knees. If Muslims do not show tolerance to Americans, then they have no right to demand it in turn. If they insist on their legal right to build the mosque, then they might wish to consider what the country would look like if they received only what they are legally entitled to from everyone else. America has done its best to be tolerant of Muslims, and has received murder, lawfare and contempt in return. If more and more Americans are becoming tired of being the ones to show tolerance, while getting none in return, Muslims may discover that they have imposed on the good nature of a good-natured people to its limit.” http://sultanknish.blogspot.com/2010/09/tolerance-is-cooperative-value.html

  62. Remarkable piece of writing! Describes the total truth. The seculars of India should wake up to the fact that they are secular because they are a Hindu and the very Hindu flavour and fabric of the country should not be destroyed for the votebank politics of minority appeasements.

  63. Hindus will reply with what only Hindus can do like. They will come up with sheer spiritual force Gurus who will change people from inside. Hindu history is replete with such instances. (What was Gandhi, ShankarAcharya, Budhha, Mahavir, VedVyas, Narad, Prahalad etc) This will force all people to think what true religion is. Such Gurus change the game of religion completely. People do not realize the power of spiritual force. Ultimately, secret lies in such spiritual force and not in swords and guns. Remember, in Hindus only, Ram and Krishna comes, the supreme power. People do not know the power of spiritual force cause they are not exposed to it. Anyone who has been exposed slightest to spiritual force will agree that spiritual force is true power and Sanatana Dharma is pinnacle of it.

  64. >> Then some elders of Kuilapalayam hear that Mulsims of Kashmir rioted …

    Really? You think that people of Kuilapalayam are so selective that they will look only at a troubled place like Kashmir and not the fact that people of all religions live and work together harmoniously most of the world including in India? Dont project your narrow thinking on others, please.

    >> I cannot condone conversion from one religion to another by using cash and other financial baits.

    The aspects/doctrines/practices of hinduism that you convenietly turn a blind eye to, are the reasons why people may chose some other religion instead of choosing Hinduism. People who remain silent when dalits are chased away from temples are the same people who “demand” that dalits must chose hinduism and not any other! And the fact that some may help the dalit to get educated, empowered and comeup in life allegedly something wrong! Read Ambedkar and you know that hinduism itself offers all the inducement needed (that no money can do) for a person to no choose hinduism.

    >> So, sometimes, Enough is Enough. At some point, after years or even centuries of submitting like sheep to slaughter …

    Wow! you could be mistaken as justifying Naxalaism, if chose the real victims – millions of victims of the system that you are glorifying . The dalits the true victim, many millions of them. Your logic serves as great justification for dalits/tribals joining Naxalaism.

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